This may be a tax form or bank issue, but if the form (T5008) is correct, I wonder if TurboTax is handling this form correctly.
I have an RBC non-registered (i.e. non-RSP) investment account, and RBC has sent me a T3 to cover Trust Income, which is taxable.
In other words, money invested was previously taxed, and capital gains are taxed annually.
In August I redeemed a block of shares from this account for a real estate down payment. I now "found" a T5008 form on CRA My Account website that when I enter it into TurboTax, adds the TOTAL amount of the transaction to my income and generates a huge increase of my tax payable.
Why am I being taxed twice for this money? What is wrong with this picture? Or, what am I doing wrong?
Thanks for any help.
Frank 🙂
. . . still hoping someone can shed some light on this . . .
RBC has confirmed the fund I withdrew from is an unregistered account, so taxes should ONLY be payable on capital gains.
To add to the detail, ONE of the two T5008 slips has the following info:
13 Foreign currency = CAD
15 Type code of securities = MFT
16 Quantity of securities = 1,167.00
17 Identification of securities = RBC (name of fund)
18 ISIN/CUSIP number (blank)
19 Face amount (blank)
20 Cost or book value (blank)
21 Proceeds of disposition or settlement amount = 25,000.00
22 Type code of securities received on settlement (blank)
23 Quantity of securities received on settlement (blank)
24 Identification of securities received on settlement - Description (blank)
24 Identification of securities received on settlement - CUSIP/ISIN number (blank)
24 Identification of securities received on settlement - CUSIP/ISIN indicator = 9
The second T5008 slip is for the same amount, different fund, and has NO info in box 24.
TurboTax places the total amount ($50,000) on line 121 (Interest Income), thereby increasing my tax payable.
The more I dig into this, the more I have the feeling that the T5008 submitted by RBC is incomplete, causing the increased tax payable.
Box 20 is for "Cost or Book Value" but is left blank. I believe this box may hold the solution, but I'm not sure if I can simply put an amount in there.
Since I pay income tax annually on capital gains, I can assume that I only owe tax on capital gains of the transacted shares from January 1, 2015 to August 13, the date of redemption.
The amount for Box 20, I believe, should be the value of the transacted shares on January 1, 2015.
Please advise,
Frank
Hi Frank. Have you got any further finding an answer? I'm having a very similar problem as you. Like you I sold a mutual fund from my non-registered account and purchased a different one. The T5008 that I found on CRA is like yours. I'm not an expert at all, but I think I need the "Cost or Book Value" as well.
This has already been answered...you are going to need to find out the cost, and you will have to ask the institution that issued the t slip.
I don't think Frank's question has been answered.Please reply regarding his suggestion that "Since I pay income tax annually on capital gains, I can assume that I only owe tax on capital gains of the transacted shares from January 1, 2015 to August 13, the date of redemption.
The amount for Box 20, I believe, should be the value of the transacted shares on January 1, 2015." Thanks! Claude
Sorry, I probably should have added whatever I learned since my last entry, as unsatisfactory as it was.
As I understand it:
1. The annual T3 that I get from the bank related to my investment account covers the capital gains on transactions that the bank completed in the day-to-day management (buying and selling) within the investment fund. It does NOT cover capital gains on shares that I sell.
2. When I sell all or part of my shares, the bank sends a T5008 for the total transaction amount to the CRA (not to me), but does NOT include the Book Value for the shares transacted in Box 20. I have no idea why Box 20 isn’t filled in, neither do I have a clue why I don’t get a copy of this T-slip, this is just “the way things are done”.
3. I am expected to report (on my T1) the transaction I made myself, and figure out the details.
4. ALL transactions (internal, hidden-to-me, as well as my own buying and selling) have an impact on the "unit book cost", which is constantly updated and reported on transaction statements and account statements.
5. The “unit book cost” at the time of the transaction is multiplied by the number of shares sold and the result is entered (in Box 20) as Book Value.
That’s basically it.
Frank
Thanks. That seems somewhat clear. Now I have to go to RBC and see why they haven't sent a T 5008 to me the past 3 years and adjust my taxes with CRA
I happened to run into the T5008 when I explored the T-slips on the CRA website, in MyAccount.
You are indeed going to have to know the cost or book value in order to determine the actual capital gain. Unfortunately you will need to get this from the issuer of the T3.
Thanks for the feedback, Jeffrey.
Figuring out the capital gains on this batch of shares is not rocket science . . . BUT . . . is it okay for me to enter that amount into Box 20, or can that only be done by the issuer (RBC)?
You can enter that amount, but you will want documentation in case CRA asks.
Thanks again, Jeffrey. I've asked RBC to complete the T5008, but if that does not happen, I may just do as you suggest. I can document everything with the 2015 statements of my account.
I've received a response from my bank (they're manning the Inbox over the weekend - impressive). So, my assumption about the T3's bringing me up to date with the taxman were wrong. Tax is payable on the increase in value from the time I bought to the time I sold.
Here is the response from my bank:
"I want to first let you know that the capital gains on your T3 receipts are not the same as the capital gains that you have from selling your funds. Both have to be declared.
The capital gains from your T3 are for the gains that we made by selling the stocks and bonds within your Mutual Funds. For example if within the year we had 10,000 shares of company XYZ and we sold them in order to buy shares in a different company. At that time, we calculated the gains we made on those XYZ shares and indicated them on the T3 receipts.
The capital gains that you made for selling your Mutual Funds, is for the difference between the prices you bought your units and the price that you sold them for. These capital gains are therefore not up to date from December 31st, 2014. UBC is used to in the calculation of capital gains and losses, by subtracting this figure from the market price of the units sold.
The Unit Book Cost (UBC) is what it has cost you 'on average' to acquire the mutual fund units that you own. Since mutual fund prices fluctuate daily, the value of the UBC also changes every time you purchase or sell units, or when units are added to your fund as a result of a distribution.
As outlined in our most recent RBC Funds Simplified prospectus, it is the investor's responsibility to keep a detailed record of purchase costs and distributions for accurate income tax reporting to Canada Revenue Agency (CRA). This is why we do not fill out box 20 on the T5008.
For more information on this subject, please visit the CRA website and view their guide on "Tax Treatment of Mutual Funds"
They say that...but at the same time, the bank does have a record themselves of all the transactions they have completed on your behalf.
The conversation with RBC continues, but in the meantime, this from the CRA website, under "T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions – slip information for individuals":
"Box 20 – The amount in box 20 may or may not reflect your adjusted cost base (ACB) for the purpose of determining the gain or loss from the disposition of the security. You are required to make the adjustments, as needed, to the amount indicated in box 20, at the time of determining and reporting your gain or loss from the disposition."
This only muddies the waters even more, putting the onus back on me. What bugs me is that I'm hiring RBC to be my investment experts. My expertise lies elsewhere and my eyes glaze over with all this boring stuff.
I haven't sold any of my mutual funds. RBC has managed and bought and sold within them and I have been issued T3's. But I ALSO got a bunch of t5008's when I used the CRA download to Turbo tax that added a ton of income. Since I haven't dispositioned any of the funds I don't understand why I would be getting these....
I HAVE A SIMILAR ISSUE - In 2022 I moved money from one financial institution to another. This necessitated selling the mutual funds I had with institution A. This gave me a capital gain. I received a T3 which showed a “Return of Capital” for 2 of the 6 funds that were in the portfolio and the same total amount was shown in box 42-Amount resulting in cost base adjustment. I also received a T5008 which showed “cost or book value” and “proceeds of disposition in boxes 20 and 21 respectively. These were non-registered accounts.
Do I just enter the information as shown on the T3, T5, & T5008 or do I need to calculate a revised cost for some or all of the funds?