For Tax Year 2023 (filed in 2024), TurboTax is failing to ask the seasonal income installment period interview questions for Indiana IT-2210A

[TaxFiler99]

I am using the TurboTax online version, and I do so every year.  I'm an Indiana tax filer, and I have to use the annualized installment method for my federal and IN state taxes, because I have uneven investment income.  For IN, this is done on form IT-2210A.  In Tax Year 2022, the interview for IT-2210A for the annualized installment method worked correctly, and I was able to enter the specific IN values for each installment period, including IN adjusted incomed and IN credits per installment period.  It's also worth noting that the IN adjusted income per installment period will be different from the federal amounts, since Indiana has a property tax deduction that will lower the IN adjusted income per installment period.  Also, IN has unique credits, like 529 contribution and donations to IN colleges, that also must be accounted for in each IN installment period, that will differ from federal.  In Tax Year 2022, this interview process for IN worked correctly, and I was able to enter the IN installment period values above, and reduce/remove the penalty.  This year, Tax Year 2023, the IN process isn't working correctly.  When it asks if you have seasonal income, it does the same thing for both yes or no.  It auto-populates the IT-2210A, I presume only using the values provided during the federal interview (plus the state estimated tax payments provided during the federal interview), but it doesn't continue to ask the state-specific questions regarding IN adjusted income per period and IN credits per period.  Asking those questions is one of the main reasons for asking if you have seasonal income for your IN taxes.  As I stated, this worked for Tax Year 2022, but isn't working correctly in Tax Year 2023, and so I am not getting to reduce my penalty by the correct amount.  I already did a live call with TurboTax customer service, but this was beyond their level of understanding.  We did do the IN taxes with and without picking seasonal income, so that I could at least demonstrate that the software works the same for both answers of yes or no, and that is the issue.

[TaxFiler99]

So, I have a much better idea of what is happening now for the issue I reported above.  For Indiana, the penalty is first calculated using the standard form IT-2210.  Then, if you have seasonal/uneven income, and you elect to do so, you can do the annualized installment method for calculating your penalty using the more complex form IT-2210A to help eliminate/reduce your penalty.  When I reported the original issue above, I was getting an Indiana state penalty of $192, even after selecting seasonal income, and also NOT being offered to answer the specific questions for seasonal income on the Indiana state taxes portion of TurboTax.  So, I downloaded and performed the raw IT-2210 form by hand from the state of Indiana.  I calculated a penalty of exactly $192, just like TurboTax.  However, TurboTax should be using the IT-2210A form for me, since I selected it during the interview for state.  So, I downloaded and performed the IT-2210A form by hand, and my penalty was entirely eliminated, as I had expected, based on my carefully determined estimated tax payments.  In fact, I was way overpaid for every Indiana installment period.  I spent 3 or 4 hours on the phone with 3 different TurboTax agents.  2 of these calls were live, and 2 of the 3 agents were long-time tax experts.  The 3rd agent was just an attempt for me to get back to the original 2 agents, both of whom were supposedly tax experts and one of whom was a manager of the other, as I found out later.  Each time, the conclusion from TurboTax is that the software is fine.  TurboTax worked correctly for using IT-2210A last year.  This year it is completely broken, because based on the detailed analysis above, it clearly isn't using the IT-2210A at all, and it couldn't use it anyways, because after picking Indiana seasonal income, it never even bothers to ask the necessary questions, like the 4 Indiana state adjusted gross incomes for all 4 installment periods and all 4 Indiana state tax credits for all 4 installment periods, which are values that can only be provided by the tax filer.  This worked last year, and it still works for the equivalent federal form in TurboTax.  Due to this issue, and the inability to get any useful support at all on it, I am forced to do my taxes elsewhere this year.  I have elected to do both Federal and State by hand this year, since I can get the correct and expected outcomes (that completely match TurboTax with the exception of TurboTax not processing the IT-2210A for annualization).  It's already frustrating to face such critical bugs, but it's even more frustrating to invest countless hours with numerous customer support agents where I did all the work, and then be told everything is fine.

[CatinaT1]

For 2023 the IT-2210A is unsupported for e-file. It does show the form available for print however. If you change your return to paper file instead of e-file, does the form calculate?

[TaxFiler99]

Can you change the setting to e-file before paying?  I'm not paying yet because it never even asked the questions necessary to populate the Form IT-2210A, and I have no idea if the form will even work.  If there is a way to test this suggestion before paying, and also be asked the relevant questions described above to allow for correct population of the form data, then I could try it.

[TaxFiler99]

Sorry, I meant change the setting to ** paper ** in my previous reply.

[CatinaT1]

I just tested it and got the same result. It asked me if I had seasonal income so it could see if I could save money on the penalty, said yes and that was it. I think it should say unsupported in both paper and efile. I have reported the issue.

[TaxFiler99]

By the way, last year this form "worked" with E-file.  However, I found out later on from the state that they didn't receive it, so I delivered them the paper copy of just the IT-2210A to fix my return.  However, TurboTax did ask the questions for the form, did generate the form with the correct output, did include it in my digital package, and did complete the e-file, although it never mentioned that this form couldn't be e-filed.  No one in customer service last year could explain why this form didn't transmit, and they couldn't answer it again this year, but at least that explains what happened last year.

[TaxFiler99]

There is actually another big problem with it this year too, that also didn't happen last year.  If you manually delete the IT-2210 and IT-2210A, you cannot restart the penalty interview.  It's stuck with whatever was performed.  You have to delete the entire state return to redo it.   I demonstrated this live to customer service, and they didn't care at all.  That also worked last year.

[CatinaT1]

Can you send us a token so we can include this.

We would like to take a deeper dive into this message to assist you.  In order to do this, it would be helpful to have a TurboTax ".tax2023" file that is experiencing this issue. You can send us a “diagnostic” file that has your “numbers” but not your personal information. If you would like to do this, here are the instructions: Go to the black panel on the left side of your program and select Tax Tools.

1. Then select Tools below Tax Tools.
2. A window will pop up which says Tools Center.
3. On this screen, select Share my file with Agent.
4. You will see a message explaining what the diagnostic copy is. Click okay through this screen and then you will get a Token number.
5. Reply to this thread with your Token number. This will allow us to open a copy of your return without seeing any personal information.

Here are the instructions if you are using TurboTax CD/Download:
 

1. Click on Online in the top left menu of TurboTax CD/Download for Windows
2. Select 'Send Tax File to Agent'
3. Write down or send an image of your token number then place in this issue.
4. We can then review your exact scenario for a solution.
5. Please also tell us any states included in the return.

We will then be able to see exactly what you are seeing and we can determine what exactly is going on in your return and provide you with a resolution.

[TaxFiler99]

I also reported a calculation error on IT-2210A last year.  It didn't affect my final penalty calculation, so the state took it anyways, but the calculation was wrong, and resulted in the wrong number in 2 boxes.  I reported the issue to 2 layers of customer service last year, and they submitted a ticket to the development team with clear details, that are actually still visible on my customer file when I call customer service today.  15 minutes later, I got an email from the development team saying they were closing the ticket due to a lack of details.  So, I suspect the issue is still present today.  Anyways, here is that issue for the same form:

On IT-2210A, in Section 3, Line 19, it is supposed to take the LESSER of line 14 or line 17.  This issue is ONLY WITH Column D.  This calculation works fine in Columns A, B, and C, which is why the form still gave the correct overall penalty calculation.  However, the form was still wrong.  So, for me, for Section 3, Column D, I had a large integer value in both lines 14 (Column D) and 17 (Column D), and this value was the same for both line 14 and live 17, so it didn't matter which it chose.  However, instead of taking the large value from line 14 or line 17, it entered 0 instead.  So, either they are subtracting 14 from 17 (LESS instead of LESSER ??), which gives 0, or they are just entering 0.  Also, because Section 3, Line 19, Column D has the wrong value, this trickles down to Section 3, Line 24, Column D also having the wrong value, as Line 24 uses Line 19 in its calculation.

[TaxFiler99]

I already provided my sanitized tax file to the customer support manager during a live call.  Can you retrieve it from my customer service file?  Someone already closed my case number, but I'm sure everything is still in the customer service system, since they also found my information from last year.

[TaxFiler99]

By the way, I am using TurboTax Online Premium.  Also, please scroll up and carefully find all the additional IT-2210A issues that I reported.  I added several more issues for the same form to the thread.

[TaxFiler99]

Hi CatinaT1, here is the token I just generated:  1197180

Also, please be advised that I added additional IT-2210A issues to this same thread, so that they can investigate all of them.

[RDC6]

I, too, am an Indiana filer, and have the same and another problem in TurboTax Deluxe.  Since our income is unevenly earned throughout the year, and not all subject to withholding, I carefully compute and track my quarterly state estimated tax payments using an Excel model of Indiana Form IT-2210A to avoid the possibility of penalties.

Line 20.a. on Indiana Form IT-40 provides the option to enter an “A” to indicate that the taxpayer elects to annualize, which should then automatically trigger use of Schedule IT-2210A.  Nowhere did TurboTax Deluxe give me the option to declare that my income was unevenly earned, and to then “annualize” my income.  Instead, TurboTax Deluxe automatically prepared Schedule IT-2210 (which is to be used only when income is evenly earned), which resulted in TurboTax Deluxe computing a $133 tax penalty where no penalty was warranted.

I also discovered that TurboTax Deluxe did not properly transfer the amounts of the estimated quarterly tax payments I keyed into the Tax Payments screen over to Schedule IT-2210.  Two of the four quarterly estimated tax payments that I keyed in were wrong on the Schedule IT-2210 that TurboTax Deluxe created.

I reported this to an Intuit customer representative on February 8th - three weeks ago.  I spent 1 hour and 54 minutes on the phone trying to get him to understand the nature and scope of the problem.  This included my using a token number to send in a protected return copy so that he could see for himself.  In the end, he said that he would mention the problem to his manager, but that I would probably just have to pay the penalty!  The problem is still not fixed.

I had to print and manually complete the affected forms to include with my state tax return.  So much for the "maximum refund guarantee" and "100% accurate calculations guarantee"!

[RDC6]

Because of an unrelated issue with my W-2, I am unable to use the e-file feature in TurboTax Deluxe (TTD).  So, I must choose to use "paper file" each year.  As of last night, February 29th, Schedule IT-2210A is still also unsupported for paper filers.  TTD automatically creates a Schedule IT-2210 and includes it in the printed tax return document.  In the "Forms" view in TTD, under "Indiana Individual" along the left-hand side of the screen, you can see that the software completed the Header and Section II of Schedule IT-2210A, but it does not then actually complete any of the four data columns, or use the form at all.